Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau: Living Legend
By Steve Holtje
CDNOW Senior Editor, Classical
The importance of Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau to the world of
singing, and to music as a whole, is symbolized by the fact that
Deutsche Grammophon's 21-disc Fischer-Dieskau Edition, as wonderful
as it is, represents only a small fraction of his many estimable
recordings. Though he modestly demures when it is suggested that
he has done more to popularize the art of lieder singing outside
Germany than any other singer, certainly it's beyond debate that
nobody else has committed so much lieder repertoire to record
-- much of it known only to cognoscenti before he took up its
cause. He was equally distinguished in opera, most notably in
Mozart, Wagner, Strauss, and Berg. But, as in all aspects of
his career, his opera interests ranged far beyond his presumed
specialties. Having retired from singing in 1992, he has continued
to conduct, and also paints.
The Fischer-Dieskau Edition covers, of course, the expected
lieder territory, with four discs of Schubert (including a previously
unreleased 1968 recording of Die schöne Müllerin with
Jörg Demus), two of Schumann, and one each devoted to Brahms,
Beethoven, Mahler, Liszt, Wolf, and Richard Strauss. There are
also two discs of opera arias, another two of sacred music, and
one of folk-song settings. But there are also surprises. The
disc Songs by Great Artist-Composers, for instance, includes
two striking songs by Enrico Mainardi, written for Fischer-Dieskau
in the '60s, four songs of Wilhelm Kempff on which the composer
is also the pianist, and compositions by Adolf Busch and Bruno
Walter, among others. A disc is devoted to songs by Debussy,
Ravel, and Ives. The lieder of Othmar Schoeck, who without Fischer-Dieskau's
persuasive advocacy would be unjustly forgotten, fill a 78-minute
CD, while Reger and Pfitzner split another disc. This box is
a true cornucopia of expressive, finely pointed singing.
Fischer-Dieskau spoke with CDNOW by phone from his home in
Berlin about the box set and more general matters.
CDNOW: How involved were you in choosing the material for
Deutsche Grammophon's Fischer-Dieskau Edition?
Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau: No, I was not. I had sent them once
a list of the published LPs, and so they had a list from me,
but they have chosen different choices and left out some things,
like my Meyerbeer songs, which I would have liked to have [had]
in the collection. And others, too. There are still things not
published on CD.
The Edition contains two discs of sacred music. Does singing
Bach require a different psychological approach than lieder or
Why should it? No, I wouldn't say so. For me, it's first music,
and also for the composer, the first thing is the music, and
then of course you have religious feelings, something independent
of that, in a way. It's the same thing as, you sing Don Giovanni,
but you don't have to be Don Giovanni to sing it onstage.
Your first professional performance was Brahms' German Requiem,
and you recorded it with Kempe, Karajan, Klemperer, and Barenboim.
Yes, professional performance; it depends on what you call
that. I had sung Der Winterreise in '42 for the first time in
front of a little audience, about 300 people in a suburb of Berlin.
Even earlier than that. Also I conducted the Brahms, with my
wife and Thomas Hampson, not long ago in Hamburg with the Singakademie
and the State Orchestra.
Does it have special significance for you?
Oh yes, of course. That is a typical product of a man who
was not a dogmatic Christian. I think he never went to church,
in spite of the fact that he ended his life by composing an incredible
organ chorale. And the texts he chose are far away from a usual
requiem. It was an ingenious way of choosing texts and the sequence
there. It's also fascinating how he combines his own creativity
with the experiences he had with the music of Mendelssohn --
above all, this music owes to Mendelssohn very much -- and of
course Bach. These two are important in the German Requiem.
Did establishing yourself as a conductor make it easier for
you to retire from singing?
No, I don't think so. But working, of course, is necessary
for me. To retire from singing is a natural process, but it is
always hard for a singer to stop, even if he has sung almost
50 years, but still. My conducting is not the same; it's quite
a different musical occupation, I would say [laughs].
"I have no ambition whatsoever to be an intellectual."
Your most recent CD as a conductor is a Richard Strauss disc
with your wife, Julia Varady. What is it like to find yourself
with the tables turned, so to speak, accompanying a singer?
I think if you can't accompany, then you are not a musician.
Furtwängler always said that. I am the conductor, and I
want the people to sing as I would like to have them, but if
you are not able to accompany then you have to stop making music
On the Strauss disc, you conduct, you sing, and you paint.
It is a pleasant surprise that you sing again, in the brief role
of the Haushofmeister. Did the philosophical point of Capriccio,
which of course lies at the heart of singing, make it special
to you and influence your decision to sing on it?
No. The decision to sing on it was simply to make things easier,
because we didn't have to engage another baritone for that. And
I just did it during conducting; it was not synchronized afterwards;
I sang it during the direction. This piece, of course, is the
unanswered question, will always be: whether the music, or text,
or words are of the first importance. Very difficult. Sometimes
it is on the side of the word -- think of Hugo Wolf, who is often
declamating and making music with the declamation -- or think
of Schubert, where you have first melody and then everything
In a way the fact that Strauss never answers the question
Nobody could, I think. It's not possible to have a decision
It's as though he's saying there isn't a dichotomy, and they're
combined to complete something different that can't be separated.
Yes, separate they are not. But of course, the results are
so different from each other whether the composer is theatrical
first of all and then makes music with that, or whether he is
a musician first and then tries to give justice to the word.
Why do you think some critics insist on calling your singing
intellectual, as though intellect is all there is to it?
[Sighs] There's so much prejudice and so much misunderstanding
in that, that I couldn't speak about it. Because it's not true.
For me, music is always the first. And intellectual, what does
that mean? I'm no intellectual at all, you see it in my English
[laughs]. Also, I have no ambition whatsoever to be an intellectual.
I'm just maybe not quite stupid, but that's a precondition. Or
else you could stand as a tenor at a ramp and shout your notes,
but I think that's not singing; that's not a fulfilling action.
It does seem as if there can be something of a paradox in
lieder and some operas. Think of Wozzeck, where there's the composer
-- who was obviously a genius -- and then a conductor and the
singer all have to be so very aware of the nuances, while they're
singing about a character who's unaware. It is a paradox, isn't
It's not a paradox; it's just the ability of the creative
person to insinuate somehow such a person and to put himself
into it, as a good actor does. I mean, no actor of the Wozzeck
of Büchner is of the character of Wozzeck. Onstage he must
be, but otherwise he is not. He may be very intelligent or [not],
but not a murderer anyway.
Aside from staging, obviously, what do you think are the differences
between lieder and singing opera?
I wouldn't make much difference, because there are in lied
so many dramatic elements, very often further than opera, even
in Schubert, but also if you start with Zelter or Reichardt.
And Schumann, take the ballads after Heine or Chamisso. There
are so many highly dramatic moments where you have to have all
abilities of the operatic voice in yourself. And on the other
side, in the opera, there is so much lyrical stuff. Think of
"O du, mein holder Abendstern" in Tannhäuser.
It is very lyrical and soft, you have to be very flexible and
able to reflect all movements, all inner feelings, like this.
What characteristics especially distinguish some of the pianists
you've worked with?
I think as exponents of different styles I would name first
Gerald Moore, who is the softest and most legato-playing pianist
I have ever met. And then on the other hand you have Sviatoslav
Richter, who was able to be a wild lion in tone. There has just
come out a record of a concert we gave together in Munich with
only Hugo Wolf Goethe songs. There you see his special qualities,
a wonderful, archaic way, I would call it, to stick to one sound
plane, some prescripted piano, pianissimo, triple piano, or,
on the other hand, fortes up to four fortes; he holds them through
as nobody else has. Alfred Brendel is very flexible on the rhythm
side very often. And there are so many other things one could
say; difficult to do it in short.
"We don't have to be guardians of the museum of the past
only; we want to give some of our own time, too."
Sony just reissued the studio disc you made with Leonard Bernstein
on piano. What was it like working with him as a pianist?
He was very choosy at the piano; we had six grand pianos in
the studio around in a circle, because he never was happy; each
song, new piano. He was never happy with the tone or with the
intonation, with the machinery, so. But he was like a volcano,
something like an explosion sometimes, and was fitting wonderfully
into the Mahler expression. That exactly is called for there.
Deutsche Grammophon is reissuing Reimann's Lear, which is
a work you suggested to him. It must be very satisfying to see
Yes, that was a piece of work for me, because I worked very
hard that it came out. Already when the LP was coming out, there
were financial problems and the opera house was against it; it
was very difficult to get it on record. But then, we managed
it somehow. Everybody sacrificed a little bit of his money, so
it came out. But it was also difficult, because all the record
firms are in difficult situations nowadays, so they didn't want
to make a big fuss about a piece which is purely modern, so it
was hard to bring them to that.
Many classical music listeners might be surprised at how much
20th-century music you have sung.
Quite a lot, yes. I think an artist is somehow indebted to
this, because we don't have to be guardians of the museum of
the past only, we want to give some of our own time too. It's
a wonderful way of adventure and surprise. You never know whether
a piece is arriving well for the audience or not, whether it's
a flop or a success. And I am a rather curious person, and I
enjoy this very much, all the time. Of course you have to find
composers who really promise to give something, to have something
to say. Aribert Reimann is one of the few composers who are able
to write for a certain voice in a certain style. He had my voice
in his head during writing. So somehow these are very, very well
done for me.
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